The One Thing You Should Know When You Buy a Car

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto) 08/05/2014 at 14:00 • Filed to: None

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I am an attorney !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and have personally spoken to thousands of people about automobile purchases, new and used. I can tell you the most important thing you can learn from the collective experience of all those people: UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF THE PURCHASE AGREEMENT.

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Auto sales are controlled by the purchase agreement you will sign once a deal has been struck. Once you sign it, the deal is done. But most people get so freaked out in a car dealership they overlook the importance of this one piece of paper.

Most purchase agreements are pre-printed forms slathered in language no one reads.

Almost always they say something to the effect of, "verbal statements made by the sales person are not binding on the seller."Such as:

That would be the fourth paragraph in the clip from above. Yes, that means the salesman can tell you anything; it won't mean a thing legally. "This is a one-owner car." "This car has never been totaled." "This car was not used as a mobile meth-lab before it was dumped in Lake Erie."

This means you should ignore everything the salesperson says to you. EVERYTHING. None of it means a thing unless it's reduced to writing. In some states, you can try arguing that the salesman's statements meant something notwithstanding the disclaimer, but it is almost impossible to prove; written statements almost always overrule verbal ones. And for every witness you had with you, there will be five other salespeople who will swear they overheard the exact opposite. "Yes, your Honor. I heard Skip specifically tell the plaintiff that the car was pulled from the crick with a heap of human torsos in the back seat."

The good news is that the purchase agreement can be used to your benefit. If the salesperson makes a statement about the car you like, ("This car has a brand new engine.") ask that it be written onto the purchase agreement. Watch the excitement which ensues. They will say, "We're not allowed to write things on the purchase agreement," or "You don't need me to write that down, I'm giving you my word." Better: "You don't trust me?" If they won't write it down, refer to the previous paragraph. The salesperson is lying to you and now you have proof. There is no valid reason a salesperson would hesitate to write a truthful statement onto a purchase agreement.

Notice that they don't make this easy. The example above is from a recent purchase agreement and, as you can see, there's not a lot of room for the parties to fill in the "OTHER MATERIAL UNDERSTANDINGS." That's because the dealership doesn't want there to be any.

So, next time you go car shopping remember this: Ignore everything the salesperson tells you. Nothing counts unless it's written on the purchase agreement. And if they won't write it there for you, walk away.

Steve Lehto has been practicing consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! for 23 years in Michigan. He taught Consumer Protection at the University of Detroit Mercy School of Law for ten years and wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . He also wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! both published by Chicago Review Press. Follow him on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

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Schep9d > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:07

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Great article. Always read the fine print! Thanks for sharing.

PS9 > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:07

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I wish the whole car-selling environment wasn't such a shitshow. Why does it have to be like this...

SteveLehto > PS9 08/05/2014 at 14:09

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It's evolved this way because it allows them to make the most money. Not saying it's right - just profit maximizing.

DConsorti > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:09

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Great post!

It's nice to read about and compare consumer protection laws beetween US and Brazil (I'm a especialized consumer attorney over here!)

SteveLehto > DConsorti 08/05/2014 at 14:12

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We should compare notes. I know a bit about US and English law (where ours came from) but know nothing about yours.

DConsorti > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:21

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For sure!

I work with consumers laws over here for over 10 years now.

And by the little I know and read about your laws, our over here are much, much more protective!

TeamFJ > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:22

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Best pen you can get cheap!

StevenG > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:24

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"Yes, your Honor. I heard Skip specifically tell the plaintiff that the car was pulled from the crick with a heap of human torsos in the back seat."

Backwoods PA typing detected.

SteveLehto > DConsorti 08/05/2014 at 14:24

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Do you have actual Lemon Laws when it comes to cars? I know that some countries don't. If a consumer buys a new car that has a problem which cannot be repaired, how difficult is it for the consumer to make the manufacturer buy it back?

DConsorti > DConsorti 08/05/2014 at 14:25

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For instance: there something over here that we call "inversão do ônus da prova" - that can translate as the "inversion of the proof obligation", that say that since the consumer is weak when compare to the supplier, is the supplier that have to prove that the consumer statement is false.

And this brings many, many problems to the suppliers attorney, such as myself, as you can imagine!

if you want, I'll send you my e-mail, and comapre notes!

Ash78, voting early and often > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:26

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Satan Motors isn't bad — they actually include wheels of polished steel, tires that grab the road, seats that selflessly hold your friends, and a trunk that can carry the heaviest of loads. No extra charge.

DConsorti > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:28

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We don't have "lomen laws" specifically, but we have a consumer code, that cover pretty much any consumer trade

SteveLehto > Ash78, voting early and often 08/05/2014 at 14:29

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I wondered if there was a "Satan Motors" (we attorneys are a paranoid lot). I know, of course, that there was the hockey player named Miroslav Satan. I figured that with my luck he opened a used car lot somewhere and would find my post derogatory. A googly search turned up nothing, however.

All Motor Is Best Motor > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:30

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Steve, I really enjoy hearing your insights on these things.

SteveLehto > TeamFJ 08/05/2014 at 14:30

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I love these pens. And I didn't have time (or the artistic skills) to come up with something to make it look like I was signing in my own blood.

SteveLehto > All Motor Is Best Motor 08/05/2014 at 14:31

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Thanks!

lightsout565 > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:31

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Hey Steve, is this more of a concern when purchasing a used car as opposed to new?

SteveLehto > lightsout565 08/05/2014 at 14:35

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There's probably more that can go wrong with a used car purchase but the situation is the same: I have heard all kinds of stories about things salespeople SAID at the time of the sale (new car) which were not enforceable later.

SteveLehto > DConsorti 08/05/2014 at 14:36

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My email is Lehto@kennon.com. I would love to discuss this further via email.

rauth > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:42

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I think a car sales snake asking "don't you trust me?" is legal grounds to pop them in the face

Conan > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:42

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This is great to see. If there's any similar things to be aware of related to private sellers I hope you can get them out there as well. Recently there was a member of Oppositelock who had a car die within 2 miles of purchase.

rauth > PS9 08/05/2014 at 14:43

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same thing with real estate

StevenG > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:45

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His name is not pronounced Satan though. More like Sha Tan.

Not sure if that matters.

Rapha13 > DConsorti 08/05/2014 at 14:45

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I'm sure you must have some great Brazilian stories...

SteveLehto > Conan 08/05/2014 at 14:45

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My phone rings all day long (and I answer it myself!) The most common calls I get are for used cars which were sold "as - is" and no one knows what that means. Most of those are for dealer-sold cars but I do get them from time to time about private sales as well. I'll do a piece on them shortly. Thanks for the idea!

Smorgasborg > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:45

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Man, I'd really like to see the local broadcast TV commercial for this place.

"Come on down to HELL where we've got GREAT DEALS on pre-owned vehicles that may or may not have been used for RITUAL SACRIFICES and MANSLAUGHTER!"

StevenG > rauth 08/05/2014 at 14:46

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Nope, just the correct time for you to start laughing.

Spaceman_99 > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:47

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Also look for language that states something like: Only things written on this contract [usually lists the page numbers/count] are part of the contract, nothing written as an addendum, email, etc are valid.

I once had a sales person try just that. Had me sign an official looking addendum that promised the world. I forced him to write it on the contract itself because I knew their fake addendum means nothing because of the language on the contract.

Make sure they write on the contact itself the deal AND sign it AND have their supervisor sign it.

FrankVilla > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:47

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OUTSTANDING post! Good to know! I loaded this mofo like a rocket and shot it over via email to all of my friends!

horspowr1001 > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:49

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Maybe I should have gotten it in writing when the Chevy salesman told me,
"The car is very quiet because it has great crumple zones." Alas, the best I could do was shove my fist in my mouth and bite so I wouldn't burst into laughter.

SteveLehto > horspowr1001 08/05/2014 at 14:54

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How loud is the airbag?

jalop1991 > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:55

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dude, it's not just cars. It's everything.

If you buy a house without first engaging a lawyer to advise you (no, the real estate agent doesn't count), you are a utter and absolute fool. Because if it's not written down, it doesn't count—and if it is written down, it does count.

And that real estate agent? Let me ask you a question: does he stand to make a commission when the sale goes through? Answer that, and then you'll have the answer to the question, to where do his alliances go?

A car is the second most expensive purchase most people will ever make. A house is the first. And yet, so many people ignore that paperwork, to the point of considering it something to be tolerated on the path to their shiny new purchase.

"Oh, I don't need to read the paperwork and understand it. It's just paperwork!" Really? Then please wait while I get my tub of popcorn and get all snuggly in the chair. This should be fun to watch.

hobo rubber fire > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:55

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Jalopnik proper needs to go ahead and hire you on as a regular contributor, Steve. People need to read this stuff.

If you fulfill random internet wishes, mine is that you keep posting.

cheers.

DConsorti > Rapha13 08/05/2014 at 14:56

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For sure!

An example: right now I'm working for a bank, and have plenty of cases where the client claims that he didn't sign the loan contract. And even when the bank shows the contract signed and the clients documents that proves that it's in fact the same person, the judge, based ont the consumer laws, rule the contract void, condemning my client to reimburse the payments made and in a indenization for moral damage.

SteveLehto > Spaceman_99 08/05/2014 at 14:57

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10-4. They will also put crazy language on the back of the document and then have a small line on the front that explains how the back is just as important as the front . . . .it's never ending.

Quade > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 14:59

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I had a Ford dealer try to rip me off by applying my trade in reverse. Basically they had added the value of my trade (which I owned outright) to the loan value instead of subtracting it from the total loan value. Would have cost me 1000's if I hadn't carefully read the purchase agreement and noticed it.

You can't trust anyone. Read the paperwork.

SteveLehto > hobo rubber fire 08/05/2014 at 15:00

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Thanks. I'll do what I can.

SteveLehto > Quade 08/05/2014 at 15:04

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Math issues are another story altogether. I had a case against a huge-volume dealer where they routinely tacked things onto the column of numbers on the purchase agreement. You almost need to bring a CPA with you to the purchase.

Skinnayyyy > Smorgasborg 08/05/2014 at 15:10

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This could actually happen in Michigan.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 15:11

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Not nearly as loud as the ignition switch.

*Zing!*

Tim Raines > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 15:12

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Auto sales are controlled by the purchase agreement you will sign once a deal has been struck. Once you sign it, the deal is done.

IANAL, but my understanding is the deal is not "done" until you drive the car off the lot. In other words, as the dealer has not given any consideration (the car), the contract is not binding, as both parties must give consideration.

The Gray Adder > rauth 08/05/2014 at 15:13

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I just say, "I've been to this dance before," or something like that.

SteveLehto > Tim Raines 08/05/2014 at 15:21

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They "gave" you the consideration when you had the right to drive it off the lot. Following the logic you describe, you could sign all the documents and then change your mind as you walked out of the office.

Trust me, once the ink is on the paper, that car is yours.

Smorgasborg > Skinnayyyy 08/05/2014 at 15:21

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I forgot there actually is a Hell, Michigan.

wildnotmild > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 15:24

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Please also consider an article on how to SELL a used car without too much worry of being sued for full restoration costs. Should we all have a lawyer draft iron clad sales contracts? I'm only half joking. I once had to listen to some lunatic scream a profanity laden threat to sue me because the Triumph TR7 project car I sold his son for $400 did not have a battery in it. This car was very old and very rough. Never mind I told them it was parked with no battery, they didn't bother looking under the hood, and then proceeded to leave the car in my yard for a week before showing up unannounced with a trailer to pick it up and then losing their shit over the lack of a way to drive car onto trailer. I loaned them a virtually brand new battery to get the car moved. The guy seemed genuinely surprised the car started (I'm glad it did) and promised to bring back the battery after they got the car unloaded. I never saw them or my battery again.

SteveLehto > wildnotmild 08/05/2014 at 15:25

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A little more complicated but I will add it to my list of topics I need to address.

TerryBong > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 15:27

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What about a private sale?

Or laws in Australia?

Good post by the way.

Qiviut > rauth 08/05/2014 at 15:27

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I wish I could recommend this 100 times

leveedog > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 15:29

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Steve, I'm assuming the purchase agreement can have a separate attachment (presumably with a list of claims by the seller) rather than trying to write in that tiny space(?). What form should the attachment take? Can it be a simple handwritten note signed by the seller and buyer or does it need to be typewritten, etc?

BeaterGT > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 15:35

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Thanks Steve!

SteveLehto > leveedog 08/05/2014 at 15:36

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Generally speaking, the parties can agree to anything but the trick is to document it in such a way that it can be enforced later. So, if the parties wanted to modify the agreement above you could add a sentence that says, "The parties agree to the terms in the attached addendum dated such-and-such." Then write the terms out clearly on the addendum and have everyone sign it, just for fun (although I'd say your odds of getting this to happen approach Zero).

cmusic > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 15:49

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"Trust me, once the ink is on the paper, that car is yours."

I was told (by a car salesman I actually felt was trying to be truthful with me) there is a law in certain states that allows anyone to return a car they bought for any reason within a 72 hour time period and get any money and items traded for said car back minus any coverage due to damage and excessive mileage that may have occurred in the 72 hours. This is not a lemon law, but applicable to any vehicle. Is this correct or a hoax?

I have two instances near me where a new car was returned to the dealer within 3 days and the people got their money back. The first is when a friend of mine bought a new Corvette without telling his wife first. The second was when a friend's 75 year old father bought a new Mustang GT and could not find insurance for it. In both cases the owner took the cars back to the dealer and got their money back. Both instances could have been the dealership agreeing to take the vehicles back for the matter of good will towards their customers rather than a law forcing them too.

cruzin150 > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 15:49

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Thank you for this. Next time I'm looking for a car, I will definitely not overlook this.

SteveLehto > cmusic 08/05/2014 at 15:52

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In Michigan, that is an old wives' tale. There are "cooling off" periods sometimes in some settings (door to door sales solicitations can create this situation) but a car sale on a lot is not one of them here. I would love to see the law (ie., show me the citation that someone can point to) that says "Any car buyer can return a car to the dealer for any reason within 72 hours."

I admit that is one of the most common questions I get at my office - and I have to break the news to the callers that there is no such law in Michigan.

pdxwhy > DConsorti 08/05/2014 at 16:00

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WOW. We could not do the same here!

pdxwhy > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 16:03

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This is incredibly good advice when it comes to other contracts as well! I am going through with a friend, who was told one thing while working on a campaign but another thing happened entirely. Sh ewas angry, but asked "when you discussed this with so and so, was this put on paper, and was an offered extended based on that? "

The answer, of course, was no.

Ultrakill > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 16:03

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Good advice. Thanks for writing.

Architeuthis Ex Machïna > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 16:04

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Some states have a "Right of Recission", where you have 3 business days to undo any contract. I am not 100% certain it applies to auto sales, but I believe it does.

SteveLehto > Architeuthis Ex Machïna 08/05/2014 at 16:16

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Which states? Can you send me a link to an actual statute? I hear this all the time and have yet to have anyone show me an actual statute that says that. For example, does it apply to all contracts? If so, can I return something I bought at a garage sale?

jstump > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 16:21

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This article is not lying, when I bought my ST the salesman straight up lied to me about being able to take in my lease without replacing tires or paying for over mileage. The day after I take my new car home I get a call from the lease manager saying I needed to pay for those things and they would not accept the lease that I already signed over to them. They wanted me to come in and add $2000 to the loan on my new car to cover it. I refused and told them they could have the new car back if they were gonna pull that crap. In the end I won out but not after fighting with the dealer for almost 2 days. I left the really bad survey and got a call a week later from my salesman asking why I left such a bad score. "I though you were happy with the deal?" He said, to which I replied "I was, I was not however happy with you lying to my face to make the deal which is why I gave a bad score." I got my first oil change for free from that and never stepped foot in there again.

turbotiny > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 16:21

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This was really helpful, thanks for writing it!

GreenN_Gold > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 16:35

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I sold cars in WA State, and we were informed by management that our state did not have the 72 hour rule, however they did inform us salespeople that the customer had to drive the car off the lot for the sale to be final. Perhaps it was more company policy, but they presented it to us as State law. If customers didn't want to take the car home immediately (this happened from time to time), we were asked to have the customer drive the vehicle off the lot and park it in the free street parking, thereby completing the transaction.

Stradale > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 16:37

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Thanks for this, really interesting read and I will definitely use that "other material understandings" section next time I buy a car!

independent_forever > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 16:39

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That was so funny...thanks for this laugh...

"Yes, your Honor. I heard Skip specifically tell the plaintiff that the car was pulled from the crick with a heap of human torsos in the back seat."

Good advice to heed...get EVERYTHING IN WRITING and not just for auto purchases...house buying, jobs, etc....without written proof and signatures you are screwed....period. It's unfortunate a handshake and someone's verbal promises and claims can't be trusted but it's the world we live in...

SteveLehto > GreenN_Gold 08/05/2014 at 16:39

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I SUSPECT they were more concerned about insurance. If the customer leaves the car on the lot and a tree falls on it (regardless of who is there to see/hear it) whose insurance will cover it? You and I both know that the customer will TRY and argue that the sale was not final and their insurance company (who will argue any position that goes their way) will likewise try it. Easier just to tell people to get it off the lot. And blame the law in the process.

SteveLehto > independent_forever 08/05/2014 at 16:41

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Sir/Madam - thanks for noticing. I put a lot of hard work into some of the elements of these (in an attempt to keep them from sounding too legalish). It's good to know that the work is appreciated.

Daddio > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 16:47

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It's #3 that kinda ticks me off. Why should I not be told the interest rate I was actually approved for until it's too late? I guess it's not "too late", they have to show you the whole long form deal in the F&I office, but by then you've already agreed to the payment (sometimes in writing on the back of a stupid piece of paper, totally non-binding, I imagine).

SteveLehto > Daddio 08/05/2014 at 16:53

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#3 is actually a little scarier - it says that the dealer can get a slice of the interest rate. Meaning that they have an incentive to get you the worst rate they can. The higher the rate for you, the bigger the kickback for them. And it's all legal since you signed the purchase agreement.

GreatestShowOnTurd > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 17:09

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Here's the link that shows the various sales types subject to a cooling-off period in Ontario, Canada and you can clearly see that purchasing a vehicle is NOT one of them. Pretty much every other high-pressure sale is in there though.

https://www.ontario.ca/consumers/your…

SteveLehto > GreatestShowOnTurd 08/05/2014 at 17:13

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Those are quite similar to the laws in the US. They are usually the types of sales subject to high pressure tactics coupled with something else, like the salesman is in your home (door to door) or you are captive (time shares). I have never seen a LAW that applies this to a typical auto sale.

GreenN_Gold > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 17:14

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Yes, I considered insurance, which may well be accurate. It was just such a big deal to management, when on any given day we would have dozens of customer cars on our lot (service, including night drop) as well as everything that was traded in that day. For some reason they wanted that one sold car off the lot badly. And if the customer brought it back the next day (say to install accessories) of course we would take custody of it again on our lot.

Shiarlis > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 17:15

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Good choice.

SteveLehto > GreenN_Gold 08/05/2014 at 17:17

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Keep in mind that when someone is explaining something and doesn't feel like going through the whole rigamarole of justifying something odd, it is just easier to say, "It's the law." I've had people say that to me (like at a bank) and when I ask them to show me the law they get all back-pedally.

SteveLehto > Shiarlis 08/05/2014 at 17:18

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I love these pens. In blue.

Speedmerchant > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 17:19

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If they don't put it in writing don't buy it. I've never had a problem putting in black and white any stips.

SteveLehto > Speedmerchant 08/05/2014 at 17:20

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What kinds of things have you gotten them to write down?

TedMarmaladeModo > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 17:22

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Any sense in pocket recording the salesperson where legal to do so?

SteveLehto > TedMarmaladeModo 08/05/2014 at 17:23

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No, because the contract the two of you signed most likely states that verbal statements are meaningless. You play the recording to the judge and the judge responds, "So what? The contract YOU signed says that his/her statements are meaningless."

yankeeskik > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 17:47

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Yeah a lot of this definitely depends upon the state. In NY at least there is no "cooling off" period. Once you clear the curb, that car is yours. Here's another way to gauge a salesperson, at least as a professional I prefer to work this way; try to see someone who a friend or relative has purchased from. I know its not always possible, but usually if a salesman or saleswoman has been at a dealership for a prolonged period of time, they tend to be significantly more trustworthy. I've been at my place about 3.5 years (long time for one dealership) and those of us who have been here at least 2 years have significantly less grief or issues than the "bouncer" salespeople who go store to store. No lying, no games. Feel free also to look at dealerrater.com for a more reputable dealer. Also if the salesman won't put something on the buyers order, ask for the manager and repeat what the salesman promised. They'll tell you right then and there if that verbal statement can be put on paper.

SteveLehto > yankeeskik 08/05/2014 at 17:50

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And I should make clear: there are good salespeople and bad salespeople - just like any industry. I have dealt with enough to know what you are saying about the salespeople who seemingly change dealerships every week. Referrals are a great way to find someone more reputable (Again, as is true in many industries).

HemiJKU > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 18:41

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Being a used car dealership owner myself I really don't understand thing. Either the majority of people in the business are crooks or the media just make them out to be. I DO NOT make untrue statements about any vehicle, I DO NOT tell a customer I will do something or it has been done unless I'm willing to put it down on paper and put my name next to it. 9 times out of 10 if I see someone is uneasy about buying a car I SUGGEST that they take it somewhere to be inspected so that they have piece of mind and EVERY SINGLE CUSTOMER signs a form saying that every vehicle we sell is AS-IS and I explain it to EVERY customer. Even if I sell them a 3rd party warranty I make sure they understand that they can not come back to me with any issues unless otherwise specified.

SteveLehto > HemiJKU 08/05/2014 at 18:47

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I suspect the difference is that you are the OWNER. Salespeople often stretch the truth when trying to make a sale (or more than stretch it). You are more concerned about your dealership's image because you can't just go to the dealer next door if you get in trouble today.

I have pointed out before that much of what I see is not a true cross section - no one calls my office to say, "The car dealer sold me a car and I got a great deal!" It's like asking an ER doctor about what it's like to live in Detroit. He/she'd be tempted to tell you that everyone is getting shot, knifed, and run over all the time. Are they? While many of them are, the great majority of them are not. It's just the sample he/she sees.

Be that as it may, my advice is sound. Ask them to write it down. You say you would - then we're all set. Right?

davedave1111 > DConsorti 08/05/2014 at 19:11

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Wow, that's extraordinary. How do I go about taking out a loan in Brazil? ;)

dperkins001 > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 19:37

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Isn't there a three day return period in some states? Or maybe nationwide? Thought there was in NY....

SteveLehto > dperkins001 08/05/2014 at 19:44

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Everyone thinks that but no. There is no such law in Michigan and I am not aware of any such law with respect to auto sales anywhere in the US.

nmalinoski > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 19:47

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Hi, your pen means "One ball"

SteveLehto > nmalinoski 08/05/2014 at 19:55

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I thought it meant "Balls united!"

HemiJKU > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 20:01

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I agree 100% what you you're saying. I just think that it needs to be recognized that the consumer isn't always right. That's something a lot of people these days don't understand or probably don't want to hear, especially when they're wrong. Thanks for the reply though, you have a lot of basic car purchasing advice I wish everyone could see. It would make my job A LOT easier.

I do want to point out though that the doctors in Detroit drive Porsche's and live in Birmingham or somewhere fancy like that. I live in the Detroit Metro area by the way.

SteveLehto > HemiJKU 08/05/2014 at 20:08

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The best advice is not what to do after - it's how to avoid the problem in the first place.

I grew up in Birmingham. Moved out when I left the state for law school.

dperkins001 > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 20:18

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You're right. I should have looked it up before posting. Good call. Good article.

SteveLehto > dperkins001 08/05/2014 at 20:20

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Thanks. I will do a piece on the three-day rule. Too many people think it's true.

Darigaaz > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 20:21

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...wait a second....

SteveLehto > Darigaaz 08/05/2014 at 20:32

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Are you familiar with the proprietor?

Darigaaz > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 20:37

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I knew a guy who knew a guy...

Joe Sixer > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 21:21

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You are kind of giving me the impression that you don't know what you are talking about. Dealers do get a slice of the interest rate but there is no reason to get you the worst rate. Dealers are paid for holding points on the interest rate i.e if the dealer gets you a rate of 1.9% and gets you to sign at 3.9% then they get paid for the two points that they held. There is a cap and the bank will only let you hold X amount of points. If they got you a horrible rate then you just wouldn't purchase. The best bet is to get you the absolute lowest rate possible and hold a few points.

The town drunk > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 21:22

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Each state is different, most of the time the car has to be burning gas and off the lot, the odometer needs to be more then what is on the purchase agreement... I sell in Texas and when you sign, you own it!

Daddio > SteveLehto 08/05/2014 at 21:27

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I thought I knew all the tricks buying my last car. Honda was offering 0.9%, what could be better? I didn't talk payments, I talked price and interest rate. Confirmed they were doing 0.9%, then went to sign the paperwork and they had actually given me 0.4% and bumped the price slightly. Was still happy with the deal, but I found that admittedly slight adjustment a bit shady. I bet they're 4-5% high on other folks who think 9% is the best they can do...

SteveLehto > The town drunk 08/05/2014 at 21:29

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That might be the dealer policy but it is not the LAW. Again, to dispute this, you would need to point to a citation - an actual statute - that says that. I'd love to see one from ANY state. So far I've had several people say that this is the "law" but no one can point to the law.

Joe Sixer > Tim Raines 08/05/2014 at 21:29

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You are correct and author is wrong, at least in my area. it's not a done deal until the buyer has taken delivery of the vehicle and driven it off the lot.

SteveLehto > Joe Sixer 08/05/2014 at 21:32

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and if they passed the better rate to you, you'd save money. It is in their best interest to not do so. My point was that many people have no idea it's happening, even though it's on the purchase agreement.